Course Content
APRIL: The Art and Discipline of Making Appointments
And, and everyone that's on the call, you can get you will get, a recording of this and AI summary of it, so you've got all of that.
Right?
So I wanted to start something a little different today.
And, usually, I start by just telling you things that, some key points and about the particular topic.
But we've got a lot of people on the call, and what I would love to know is what are your struggles with appointments, either making them, keeping them, closing them?
Like, what about appointments had you say, you know, I I think I need to be I think I need to be on this call today.
Was there something if you wanna just say it out loud, that would be completely fine too.
Jody, for me, I'm in the showroom, so I don't, you know, make outside appointments.
I have clients that will set appointments for their clients come into the showroom, and sometimes those get canceled.
But I just kinda stay in, constant contact with them to see if it's gonna move forward.
Perfect.
I mean, we're definitely seeing a trend where it's harder and harder for our outside reps to, to get appointments.
And or if they do get them, they get canceled at the at the last minute.
I was at the Makers Alliance summit in November, and I asked, you know, the whole group of brand owners that were there, including, Jeffrey Burchad from Philip Jefferies.
Yep.
And they said that they're having to focus more on doing drop offs, drop bys, like, more, you know I'm hearing that too.
More just, you know, less formal presentations, but more just trying to get in front of people.
That thing, you know, we need to figure out a way to try to turn those into you know, I've been trying to focus with my team on that's fine, but then you need to turn it into an appointment.
Like, it needs to turn into a return trip or needs to return you know, you need to figure out how can you get an appointment and get on their schedule.
But I think so much of what you train on also can be relevant to inside people like Suzanne in terms of setting appointments for follow-up and setting you know, this isn't just about outside sales appointments, which is why I wanted my inside team to on this?
As well.
Yes.
Oh, wow.
Well Hi.
So, so let me start by do so we're we have a lot of different people on this call.
We've got retail people.
We have designers.
We have trade showroom people.
We've got a lot.
So so this is perfect.
Right?
Because there are there are actually more similarities, and they're we're gonna veer off wherever we veer off, but there are we're gonna focus, as well on the similarities.
So one of the things that I wanna so I'm gonna, like okay.
I've got something in the chat.
Let me look.
So my salespeople say that customers don't wanna commit to a time.
One thank you, Ali, for that.
And Jackie said making an outreach appointment can be challenging with everyone's business schedule.
Sometimes I get no response.
Those are perfect.
Alright.
So let's go.
So I add one thing to that, Jody.
Okay.
Yes.
I promise.
Yes.
I think if at some point you can address the email asks versus picking up the phone and calling, which I know is something you talk I yeah.
I've been I think that's been a challenge with my team is, you know, they email to try to get the appointments, and nobody's looking at emails anymore.
It's really hard to get people to respond to emails, and so many of them go into other or go into junk and things like that.
So I think the importance of picking up the phone and calling or DMing through Instagram is another method I've heard.
You know, works.
People tend to look at their Instagram messages before they look at their emails.
So that was just something I wanted to add for the conversation, hopefully.
Right.
Oh, okay.
Thank you for that.
So let's just first look at what's an appointment because, an appointment the only thing an appointment is is a scheduled meeting and time.
That's what it is.
So where you have it, where how you have it, with whom you have it, it's like a dentist appointment that it's actually a time set aside for that for that particular action.
So I believe I'm not right about this, but it's my deal is that every sales interaction should result in a sale or an appointment.
Every sales interaction, a sale or an appointment.
Now you could argue in that and say, well, but I don't think we're ready for that.
It's like, then you're ready for an appointment.
Hey, Jessica or Jesse.
You're ready for an appointment then.
That an appointment is what's called a forward or an advance in selling.
That's what it is.
It's to keep the conversation going.
And so we wanna be looking for appointments in order to do that.
So the reason we make them why do we make appointments?
Why don't we just, like, leave things out there to just happen whenever they happen?
Or, you know, it's my it's my way that I follow-up in two weeks or I follow-up in five days or whatever we have as our our best our best practice without necessarily looking to see if that best practice is actually a best practice or if it's just a way that we've developed.
Right?
So if we go into every interaction expecting to write an order or to to write it down or write it up, right, that if we're looking for one of those two outcomes, then we're gonna have a much appointment is measurable.
But a sale or an appointment is measurable.
And as salespeople, we are driven by outcomes because that's the job.
We get a we get, an update or a result at every interaction of whether we were effective or not.
So if we go into the interaction to make an appointment because we know so what are some of the advantages?
Why do we make appointments?
We make appointments because we manage our time better.
They manage their time better because people are more prepared because they're more focused.
We make appointments because they they work at making our predictable outcomes predictable, and that's what we wanna be doing.
So that, they're gonna drop by on Friday afternoon is not an appointment.
It's a wish, but it's not an appointment.
And when we start to get effective at making appointments, I promise you, your life will change when you make appointments.
And it's one of those things that, I know that we get upset about making appointments that get that we get stood up and then they ghost us and all that stuff, and we and especially if we've already invested time with that individual, and we feel, you know, we got used, we got taken advantage of.
We go down this resentment Road.
Right?
But the fact is we didn't make an appointment, and we didn't set up any expectations of what that appointment was meant to do.
So we gotta take that.
And the and, you know, one of the beauties of being on being salespeople is it's a tuition commission job.
Either you sold it and you made money or you learned something.
But if you go don't get either of them, you're not getting that time back because they liked you.
Right?
So we wanna just start refining our our tool to be to be making appointments all the time because they keep us focused and they keep us intentionally engaged.
So you wanna look at, to start to look at how do they benefit you, how do appointments actually benefit you so that you can start to be sold on them yourself.
Because if you're not sold on the value of appointments, it's very difficult to sell someone else on them.
Alright?
So that's the overarching thought about appointments.
Cancellation is very frustrating.
Okay.
I'm looking at the at the chat, so sorry about that.
So the next thing is is when do I wanna make them?
So one of the things that I would encourage you to do is I would encourage you to take a look at your calendar and to actually block out time for appointments.
And you wanna block out time for appointments that are low traffic showroom times or times that are are best for other selling activities like presentations or something else that you need to be doing.
Depends on whether you're inside, outside, trade, or or retail.
So that if you were to look at your calendar so let I'll I'll use trade, for example.
That in trade showrooms, if you're an outside salesperson or you have appointments, you might say, Monday and Friday, I'm not gonna be making appointments.
That's gonna lead me to be appointment heavy Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday because they're closed on weekends.
If you're a retail salesperson, I would say you wanna look at your calendar and say, when are our highest traffic times in the showroom with incoming traffic?
Because you wanna close that traffic.
Same thing with trade showrooms.
You wanna you wanna be available for any incoming traffic because people face to face always get priority.
Right?
And so since appointments happen on the phone, in the showroom, on location, or on Zoom, there are many ways to have an appointment.
So when I say appointments, I know that if I'm gonna block out time for appointments, it can be any kind of an appointment.
I'm just I'm just, designating it as an action in time that I'm setting aside for.
So if you're in a retail showroom, I would not make appointments other than when the door opens or right before the door closes in your workday.
So if you open if you're open nine to six, then you've got a 09:00 appointment and a 05:00 appointment.
Because if they come in at 10:00 and you work on something and they have to go home and measure, say, great.
Either come back at five or let's talk at five and we can do it then.
Because you wanna close it.
When they're hot to buy retail, you wanna close them.
So I would not make a 02:00 in the in the afternoon appointment in retail on a Saturday or Sunday pretty much ever.
So Saturday or Sunday are to close new opportunities and to schedule anyone who cannot buy on Saturday or Sunday from Monday through Friday.
Right?
Low traffic times beget appointments.
High traffic times, front and center in trade and retail showrooms.
So if you buy that concept, then the next thing to do is start plotting out when you're gonna make appointments because you say when appointments happen, not them.
So that when you because here's what happens if you don't do this.
We say things like, well, when can we meet again?
And they say, I'll get back to you, and they never do.
How many times do we have to learn that lesson to get it doesn't work?
Right?
Let's try something else.
So when you say to them, so let I want you to start I want you to so first of all, take a look at your calendar and break your day into three.
Morning, midday, late.
Right?
And maybe put an appointment in each block so that you might if the showroom is ten to six, then you have a 10:00 appointment, a noon appointment, and a 04:00 appointment.
You don't have to do that every day, but that's what you wanna do.
I would shoot for 10 appointments a week.
If you're an outside salesperson and you're doing Monday, Tuesday or Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday appointments outside in their in their in their space, then you probably are gonna be looking for 12 appointments a week.
Four a day is what you're looking for, especially if you're doing drop offs because they count.
They count.
So and then Monday and Friday in for trade show rooms, you're gonna be scheduling appointments and and doing follow-up so that when you're on the road, you wanna be on the road meeting people.
Okay.
So the beauty of doing this, and I'll talk to the retail people for a second or the trade showroom people are inside, that when you start to put your start here's my calendar.
I could share my screen and show you.
It's probably a better way.
Is that when you start to put it out there and you say you go into your you open your calendar, or if you're using CRM, you do might do it a little differently.
But you open your calendar and you click open 10:00 Tuesday morning, and you put appointment.
And then you go to the repeat and you say, save this forever.
And then you go to 04:00 on Tuesday, and you do a 04:00 appointment, save forever.
So now your calendar has 10 boxes on them, 10 slots for appointments.
You are pre slotting your calendar for appointments at times that work for you for you.
Low traffic times, and you're not doing other things.
So now when you're working with someone, you can start well, you can say, are more do we wanna so watch the either or, either or trial it's an alternate close.
Either or, either or.
This one, this one.
So you say, do we wanna meet in person to get this done, or do we wanna do this over the phone?
So they say, let's meet in person.
You say, great.
Is morning or afternoon better for you?
They'll say, it depends.
I said, well, pick one.
So middle of the week is morning or afternoon better.
They say morning is better.
You say, great.
I've got 10:00 on on Tuesday or 11:00 on Wednesday.
Which do you prefer?
That is a closing question.
Stop talking and wait for them to answer.
Now they might say, well, could you do Wednesday at 10:00?
And you say, let me check my calendar.
And you say, I can move a couple of things around and make that happen for you.
And they say, wouldn't that be great?
And you say, so I'm gonna send you a calendar invitation for that.
When you get it, just click it, and we're done.
And I'm gonna reach out to you whether you text them or call them.
I'm gonna reach out to you between three and five the afternoon before to confirm this and see if what you're going to be doing you've had time to do.
Because when they leave your showroom, you wanna give them homework.
There's things that they need to be doing.
So if you've made it so I'm gonna talk to the trade showroom people for a second.
That if you have quoted something and you ask them, when are you presenting this to your client?
And they say, I'm presenting it on the twenty fourth, and I'll use this month because it's the twenty second.
So that would be Friday.
Right?
So you say I'm presenting it on the twenty fourth.
You say what time?
And they say 10AM.
And you say, great.
And may I ask, what's the objective of the presentation?
Like, what are you planning to accomplish with that?
And they say, I want them to sign off on blah blah blah blah blah.
And you say, excellent.
Let's talk Friday afternoon.
I have a 02:00 slot or 03:30.
Which is better for you?
And they pick 03:30.
Right?
So I know that I know that there may be some trade people who are thinking, oh, Jody, you can't do that.
You you know, if I quote somebody, you know, I can't I don't get that quick a turnaround time.
It's like, yeah.
But you're not asking what I just did.
You're not doing that.
You're doing what you've always done.
So I encourage you to look at if you're quoting someone something and and you ask them when they're presenting, then you call them within a very short amount of time after they've presented to see what do we wanna go ahead with, what do we need to adjust, what is off that we need to replace, what got added.
Right?
That's what the call is for.
That's what the meeting's for.
Right?
So that you can continue to stay active and engaged in what it is that they're doing.
So it will be awkward the first time you do that.
So I wanna go back to, first thing first, in this conversation is take a look at your calendar whether you're using Google or Outlook or iCal or whatever you're using.
Block off times on your calendar so that you can offer those times as appointment times, And you get completely away from saying, when can we meet or speak again?
And then second, start to use that strategy of meet again or speak again, morning or afternoon.
I have this time or this time, which do you prefer?
Closing question, wait for a response, and then I'm gonna call you to confirm this on this time.
Will it work a 100%?
No.
But it will work much better than what's probably currently happening because it actually works.
Okay?
Any questions on that?
Anyone wanna put a question in the chat or yell something out?
You can do that.
Okay.
So then, I'm going to keep keep going.
So the you might have a question of, well, how do I know if the appointment is the right thing to do?
Okay.
So, I know that we have a lot of trade people here trade showroom people here who and retail people who understand the badass questions.
So the badass questions budget what they're expecting to spend, avail ability to buy what they have or have access to spend, decision maker, availability and time frame, and shopping and comparing.
That's what they are.
And the primary function of the badass questions is simply this, when can they buy?
That's the function.
How they answer those questions tell you how far along in their process they are and when they can actually take action.
And if today is not the day for taking action, then the outcome for today is an appointment.
Right?
Which is why it's called seller to schedule it because they're both great outcomes.
And this and the appointment is a forward to the sale.
So if you're asking and getting answers to those as part of your discovery questions, you should learn and assess what the outcome of today's interaction should be.
Right?
So appointments and some of you might have been on I think Lindsay might have been on this, and I know she's on now.
So, when you're making an appointment and you know it's going to be an appointment today, then appointments are intangible outcomes.
Appointments are, for those of on the call who are retail, protection is an intangible, financing is intangible.
They're all intangible things that have to be sold.
So if you know by the answers to your discovery questions that today is going to be an appointment, then as soon as you know that, you need to introduce it as a concept.
So as soon as you know that I'd use retail for instance.
As soon as the the retail customer says, I need to bring my husband back to see if this is gonna fit him, Then you say, great.
That's gonna be your homework.
That will be your homework.
Let's get as far as we can get today.
And before we wrap it up, we'll talk about what the next steps are gonna be.
So in selling an intangible, you need to introduce the intangible outcome as a concept prior to trying to close on it.
Prior to.
Because if you wait till the end of the interaction and you open up your calendar and you say, let's make an appointment, they'll say, what?
Because they don't their brain our brains don't work that way.
Our brains need time to process the intangible concept before we're able to make a commitment to it.
So, again, retail, it's the same for protection.
It's the same for financing.
Bring it up before you try to close on it.
For trade people, when it comes to bringing up the concept of an appointment and you ask them when they're presenting and what the outcome of that present what the expected outcome would be, then say, great.
Well, we'll talk after that.
We'll talk you know, just drop it.
Well, we'll talk after that.
We'll set we'll talk after that.
And then keep doing what you're doing.
And then say, okay.
Let's set up that time so that we can talk after the appointment.
So after your presentation, so that we're not chasing each other.
I want your time to be smooth, and I wanna make it easy for you.
Right?
So that and and I know that for for trade people, there's not been that, intentionality around making appointments with a quote, and some of this is gonna be awkward at first, but it won't be awkward for long.
It'll only be awkward at first.
I'm a show you another thing about appointments.
So some of you have seen this, and some of you have these of your own.
You might have your own production wheels.
Right?
And that's what this is.
And the intention of this is, again, to sell or to schedule it so that if we look at today, which is April 22, and we look at lead time of, let's say, twelve weeks, Lead time of twelve weeks is gonna put us out to July 15.
And if we're gonna add some time for delivery and installation, let's add another couple of weeks.
That's gonna get us to fourteen weeks.
So that's July.
So you can say, if we were to order this today, then we're looking at probably the last week in July, the first week in August to have it on-site.
Is that about right for you?
Yes.
No.
But if they say to you, we're having a family reunion August 15, and we need this.
We want this in that for them.
Then August 15 is sixteen weeks away.
If we subtract fourteen weeks, then we can say what I call the drop dead deposit date, which is an appointment, to say that means that we have until no later than May 3 to get this finalized and ordered.
So let's either make an appointment for May 3 or for some time between now and then and make an appointment.
So this will help you to make appointments by making the time real for them in a way that it isn't right now.
When we give ranges early in the month, late in the month, twelve weeks, they're not thinking that way.
We need to start talking about what that actually looks like in time in time.
Okay.
Other questions sorry.
Alright.
Any other questions on appointments so far?
Okay.
So I'm gonna go to some of your chat questions and see if I can answer those.
Okay.
My salespeople say that the customers don't wanna commit to a time.
Okay.
I would suggest that what happens with that, Ally, is this.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Thank you.
So Yeah.
Thank you.
So I would say that they haven't They haven't?
Made the appointment of value to the customer.
Right?
So customers are gonna buy the concept of an appointment because they see it as a benefit to them.
Right?
They're not gonna buy it because it's a benefit to you.
So if you say and I don't mean that in a harsh way, although it might have sounded harsh.
That if if you if there are whatever consider this.
For retail salespeople, whatever is keeping them from buying today is the reason they should make an appointment.
Whatever is keeping them from buying today is their homework to keep them tethered to you between now and the appointment, and you wanna stay in touch with them between now and the appointment so that they don't disappear.
So if you give them homework because think about it.
No one gets homework on the last day of school.
So homework implies something's coming after that.
Right?
So that if someone says I need to bring my husband back, then you say that'll be your homework.
If someone says I need to double check the measurement, that will be your homework.
If someone says I need to see how this is gonna look in the room, how this fabric's gonna look in the room, that will be your homework.
Right?
So when there's homework, then there's gonna be another meeting.
And the homework doesn't require coming back in.
If they're gonna measure it, double check a measurement, that will be your homework.
And let's set and you can still do the meet again or or speak again, which is what is the best solution.
So, Ali, I would say that what tends to go along with the customers don't wanna commit to a time is because the salesperson asked when do you wanna come back, and the customer was vague in responding to that.
If the salesperson had said, morning or afternoon better for you, great.
I have Tuesday at ten or Wednesday at eleven, which is best, that customer would commit to a time, especially if there's a reason to meet again or speak again to get something done.
And as salespeople, the sense of urgency is helpful when the sense of urgency is theirs.
So the sale ends at the end of the month, may not be a sense of urgency unless pricing was a priority.
It may not be, an emergency unless there are whatever the sense of urgency is, have it be based on them versus based on you because then you can use that sense of urgency to get something to happen, But you won't get it to happen if it's your urgency.
So, Ali, did that answer that question for you?
Yes.
Thank you.
Is there anything left with it?
Any No.
Anything that if you were to take that back to your team, they would give you the, yeah, but what about thing?
Say that again?
Yeah.
If if you just do we do, like, fabric samples where they'll they'll take fabric home for a few days, and I have a lot easier time getting them to commit to an appointment once they know, like, exactly what we wanna do when it comes down to buying.
But the actual process of getting there and, like, going home to measure, going home to look at colors, they do not want to prioritize that as much as the beginning.
What do I like in the end?
Okay.
Now I'm ready.
I feel like.
But I also am not great at offering morning, afternoon.
I think that would be for sure helpful.
So, Ally, is your people trade or retail?
Retail.
Okay.
So so, so stay on the horse with me for this.
So one of the things that and this is actually true for trade or retail.
But one of our greatest values as salespeople in our showroom is that we know how things go.
We know the actions that need to happen in order for a sale to occur, in order for someone to have the confidence to take action as a customer.
So if we tell them what happens and say, this is what needs to happen.
Right?
This is what needs to happen.
That, we need to double check the measurements.
We need to check and see that this is gonna work, blah blah blah.
And this shouldn't take us more than two or three days.
Like, if you tell them what the actions are in the expected time frame, then they can think, oh, yeah.
Well, that makes sense.
And then say, great.
So then let's just look at it that way and and then look at, you know, four, five days out and see since I know you wanna have this for the family reunion.
Let's see what what day works best for us to meet again or speak again to get the next to take the next step here.
I didn't even say to buy it, but to take the next step.
That's all.
I also believe that we need to do confirmation calls and set up when that's gonna happen.
So if you have a 10:00 appointment to meet, especially in person because you get as salespeople, we get turned off really quickly.
If we keep getting burned, we make appointments and nobody shows.
We're gonna say to hell with those appointment things.
They don't work, and we're gonna stop doing them.
Instead of really examining, is the way that I'm doing them working?
Right?
So if you say, I'm gonna call you between three and five the night before to hear how you're doing with your homework, to hear what you might have noticed, and to confirm our meeting the next day.
Then you increase the likelihood of doing that, plus send a calendar invitation.
We're all used to it now.
We're used to getting five texts from the dentist starting three weeks before the dentist appointment.
We're used to this.
So us using these methods to make to start to really confirm our appointment times is not something that people are unused to like they were when I was talking about this five years ago.
We've been we're in a different place, so we're not gonna get as much pushback from people making appointments with us, especially if there's a deadline that we need to hit or some other sense of urgency.
So, Ali, it was a great question.
And you're gonna get this that you can show this to your team.
Thank you.
You're very welcome.
Okay.
Jackie says, making an outreach appointment can be challenging with someone else's busy schedule.
Sometimes they get no response.
Alright.
I'm gonna give you something that and it doesn't always work, but it works enough.
And it's what I call a verbal equation.
It's a verbal equation.
And here's the equation.
The word since, s I n c e, followed by a fact, followed by a question.
In selling, it's called lead with the objection.
Right?
So here's an example.
Since we both have busy schedules, is it easier for us to to for me to come to yours to your, office or for you to come to the showroom?
Since, followed by a fact, that's gonna be what their objection would be.
You're bringing it up.
And now you're asking, since that is actually in play and part of what we're dealing with, what's the best way to take the next step?
What's the best way for us to meet?
What's the best way for me to exchange information?
Since your schedule is busy, what's the next step?
Is it better for me to work with the junior designers?
This is for trade outside people or trade people.
Is it better for me to work with junior designers to get this information in your hands, or is it better for me to drop by and do, a library refresh?
Because we got a lot of them that aren't doing lunch and learns right now because it's like we're so busy.
The busy ones are busy.
Right?
Okay.
So let me look at the next one.
So this is, Xanagil.
Cancellations are very frustrating.
Sometimes I I I sometimes get them the same day.
Okay.
So one of the things that might help, one is I would call to confirm the day before, but I would also maybe either there may be many things and pick from them.
One is I would have an agenda for the meeting, and there may be some things that you send them to prepare them So that you wanna stay on their radar and continue to be a value to them.
The other thing I would say this for any of the outside people or any trade people who go to showrooms is if you are looking to get an appointment with a designer, I would say that I would say I would like I would like to do x.
I will be twenty minutes no longer than twenty minutes.
I promise I will not waste your time.
I will not be longer than twenty minutes.
And whatever you're going there to do, do one thing.
Because I think one of the things that happens with a lot of reps that finally get in to a designer studio is they try to do too many things and they don't leave.
Right?
Or they they're trying to talk to people and meet they're trying to capitalize, and I completely get it.
Optimize this visit, but it's too much.
And so they thank god, they gotta get out of here.
Instead of saying, I'm gonna do one thing.
I've looked at such and such on your on your website.
There is a a new fabric line that I really wanna show you.
I won't be longer than twenty minutes.
I promise I will not waste your time.
And when you get there, set another appointment for something else.
But don't try to do so many things in that one visit that we become a burden to them because that's what they're avoiding.
So keep it to fewer things because if you're looking to cultivate that relationship, you wanna be drip, drip, drip, drip, dripping into that relationship anyway.
Next time, it'll be lighting.
Next time, it'll be upholstery.
So allow yourself space and grace to be able to build the relationship by doing it that way.
Okay.
Does would that be helpful?
Yes.
Oh, good.
Okay.
Alright.
What else do you have?
What are some of the other struggles?
And I am game to actually be you and you be your worst nightmare, and we'll can play it out.
Whatever you wanna do, it's your time.
So what are some of the other struggles that you have?
Joby, give me the one that you said again.
Okay.
How many people are setting next appointments when they finish the current one?
That's a very good question.
So let's say that you did that twenty minute meeting, And you say, I would like to now that I've got a chance to look at some of the projects you've got on the board, I really would like you to see our lighting line.
Can we look at our schedules to see when I can spend another twenty minutes to show that to you?
Because he's right.
When you leave that up that opportunity, set another meeting.
I mean, some of the firms right now are scheduling out six months, seven months.
And if you don't schedule the appointment while you're there with them, you may never get another one till next year.
You may never.
Yeah.
Right?
So I know that the cultivation process in trade is different from retail, And it's b to b versus b to c.
Right?
And I think that I wonder if we're doing adequate investigation and cultivation to get on their radar.
Right?
And by that, I mean, like, look at their social stuff, look at the things that they follow, look at the things that they, that they're interested in, and start the cultivation process so that if you see a, excuse me, an article in business of home that resonates with something that they, have shown an interest in, take a take a copy of it and mail it to them.
Because they don't people don't always wanna open links in an email, so they'll avoid that.
Or cut and paste it and drop it into an email and say, I thought of you when I read this, especially in but it's gotta have relevance to something specific versus just a you know, it's a it's a blind email to everyone.
But especially since the the Montecito project that you did, this really reminded me of that about you.
And so I think there are a lot of, like, drip drip drip cultivation activities that we can get that when you do call them and reach out to them to get an appointment.
The other is I was talking with a, a designer in boss in Boston Design Center.
He's got two showrooms.
One is his own showroom, the other is a multiline showroom.
And I asked him, what do you think I I should be talking to showroom I should be talking to reps about when it comes to calling on you and calling on showrooms.
And he said, I think that he said, I he said, I have lots of projects that I work on.
And as the principal designer, there are certain elements of every project that I source, but there's probably 25% of the project of the project that I say these are the things I want.
These are the signature pieces.
These are the important things that I will really do.
He said, but there can be 50 to 75% of the project that my team sources.
He said, but nobody talks to my team.
Nobody tries to get in and see my team.
They all try to get in and see me.
He said, but I'm not the one making all the decisions.
He said, go for them because they're the ones you wanna build relationships with.
You can get to me eventually, but you're gonna get a lot more if you focus on them and not look at them, you know, not dismissively.
But you know what I mean, that it's not really worth your time.
You wanna go for the big fish.
He said, go for them because they make a lot of decisions and they don't require me, which I thought was a great idea.
Right?
Okay.
Okay.
So it would be for the trade showroom people, it would be a big deal if you really sought to schedule appointments with every quote, especially if they're in the showroom with you or if you're on the phone talking about what you're gonna be sending them as samples.
Let's set up a time.
I know you're gonna like, if I gave you say, when are you gonna be presenting to the client?
If I gave you exit like that.
You want to be looking for an opening to set appointments with everyone.
So you need to sharpen your listening and dial up your opportunism to be looking for offering that as the outcome to that call so that every interaction, you set something up to meet again or speak again.
Every single one.
You're going into it looking for that opportunity.
Not to just be helpful and not to just be informative, but to be to actually close the loop on that interaction.
Seriously.
And everyone's not doing that, but a lot of people are.
I saw that Lindsey.
Lindsey, are you on the call?
I hi, Jody.
I am.
Hi.
Tell us how you're doing with making appointments.
So I've been doing a lot better because I've been out of the showroom more, so it requires me to make appointments because I'm not just automatically there anymore.
So even just being out of the showroom a couple days a week is now my clients understand my schedule, so I always say to them so it forces me when I do send a quote.
It's not just like, hey, stop by, or, hey, let me know what you need.
Like like, are you ready?
I'm I'm more focused with, you know listen.
I I've got Wednesday and Monday next week.
Do you wanna come into the showroom, or do you want me to come to you?
And it's really been working beautifully.
So and and what's it showing in result in sales results for you?
I mean, is that how's the rubber meeting the road with that?
I I think I mean, I can't say, like, an exact number, but my sales are improving.
I don't know if it's all tied to that.
There's a lot I do, but they're definitely on the up and up.
That's the key.
Right?
We're looking for progress, not perfection.
Yeah.
Exactly.
Okay.
Shar, I have a new product that I wanna show several high end shops that I know would be good fits.
I don't know how to break through, get an appointment with the buyer.
If they've never heard of me, it's very difficult to do.
If I'm rejected by the person who answers the phone, then it's awkward to subsequently pursue by other means.
What are your suggestions?
I think that this so thank you, Shar, for that question.
So look.
We're we've ended the first quarter of the calendar year.
We're now in the second quarter.
If you you wanna be looking at what your goals are for the year and how you're doing with that, but you also wanna have, in terms of client cultivation, you should have a hot list of people that, like, Scarlett after the war, as god is my witness, they are gonna be a client of mine by the end of the year.
Like, you honestly wanna take some of those on because that is drip, drip, drip client cultivation.
You know, whether you're sending them, I don't know, organic seeds for their garden for the summer in a note, or you wanna be doing lots of ongoing things so that when you do pick up the phone and call them, they say, I know who she is.
I know who she is.
That let me give you an example.
She's not on the call right now, but, Dania Lane, she was with Waterworks.
She's at with Janice at sea right now, VP of sales.
And they were cultivating when she was with Waterworks, they were cultivating a client.
It was hard to get in, hard to get in.
Finally, they they got in.
They met with the principals, but it was awkward.
It was awkward.
And one of the things that she did, they're sitting at the desk.
She looks up and on the credenza, over the credenza behind their desk was a picture of a pug.
So Dania says, who's got the pug?
So the owner of the pug, because they were print two principals.
They were partners.
She said, oh, that's Henry.
So now there's a conversation around Henry.
But, Dania, because she's a very good salesperson, didn't take that as an opportunity to talk about her French bulldog.
She stayed that on the Henry topic.
Right?
So they leave.
You know, it's all it's great.
They set up another appointment.
They leave, and Dania goes and buys an organic dog biscuit, wraps it up, puts it in a little package, and sends it to Henry care of the owner.
They were in forever.
But that's the kind of stuff that you wanna get your antenna up there and start looking for connection details that that show the level of interest you have in pursuing them.
So Joby's on the call.
Joby, you're still here?
Yes.
So I met Joby, I don't know, twenty years ago, Joby?
I think a little more than that.
Okay.
And we met at I think we met at High Point Furniture Mart.
We met at High Point.
You were still in Henredon then.
Right?
Mhmm.
We met at High Point, and I don't know how we got to talking about it, but Jobe and I are both Leos.
And, of course, Leos talk about what are you in July?
We do that, like, thing.
Right?
So I get Joby's birthday.
I send him a birthday card.
Right?
And it started there.
Right?
That's how it started.
And so I said no multiple times before I thought he said yes.
He did.
Right?
But it's it's so when you think of it as client cultivation with the with the with the emphasis on cultivation.
But when you think of, like, what are some good cult cultivation activities?
There was a person I worked with in Chicago.
She was a top salesperson, retail salesperson.
In her thank you notes, I kid you not, in her thank you notes, she would put flower seeds for forget me not flower seeds, which I thought was too precious.
But not only and, of course, you'd have a you have an envelope that's now puffy.
Right?
And what she would do is not only did she sent she sent those to all of her customers.
But she also enrolled everyone in her family and everyone in her social circle that when they went to Lowe's or CVS or Home Depot, they would buy forget me nots, and they would get her forget me not seeds.
Right?
So it was like this, and it was brilliant.
She was the top salesperson in the organization, and most of it was referral business.
Right?
So to start to look for those small things that because Shar's right.
We've gotta get on their radar when they're busy so that they'll say yes.
So what are the ways of getting on their radar?
Certainly, following them on social media, commenting on their things with things that are really specific, and and starting that way.
And not in a, like, a creepy stalking way, but in a that makes sense kind of way to them.
Okay.
Any other questions?
And you can shout them out.
Toby, did I answer your question?
I still don't know if I did.
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
Any other questions then?
Okay.
I have one if no one else is.
Okay.
Good.
How do you met how does any anyone else on the call or, Jody, how would you envision how do you measure the value and the benefit of the drop offs and drop buys?
Like, we're tracking them now as a company, so we know how many we're doing every week.
But how do you I mean, I guess, other than, you know, our quotes and orders coming out of the drop offs and drop buys, but with our cycle time into the trade and with custom projects and that kind of stuff.
So that's the first question.
Is is anyone doing something that maybe I'm not thinking of for measuring that?
Or do you have any suggestions?
And then the mix between going to the because one of the things I've seen with my outside sales team is they get their foot in the door, and and this is a positive, I think, that, you know, they've they've they've created they've built the relationship, and now they can pop in more often.
And so they're going and seeing the same people over and over and over again.
And so I don't know that the value of 12 good lots of drop bys, if it's the same 12 people every week, is as valuable as if it's six of them are the same and six are new.
And so is anyone setting benchmarks or goals for what the difference has is between that, or do you think it matters?
Well, I think the first one, the first part in terms of what do you want the what do you want the drop off to create?
Do you wanna get a quote from it?
Do you wanna get two cards from it?
Do you what's the outcome you're looking for in addition to the utility of a drop off?
You know, the the the obvious function of it.
So do I wanna find it?
One of my one of my outside reps is on the call right now, and I keep saying we didn't hire you to be a glorified courier service.
Right.
We you said that that's just part of What's the outcome?
What are you looking for?
And did you accomplish that?
Because if you don't have a target if you you can't improve what you don't measure.
So if you don't know what it is you're looking to achieve, then we're gonna fall prey to the, they liked me.
They found I was helpful.
We're gonna go to those soft, vague things that can't be measured.
There's that.
And so if you say, I wanna get the names of I've met one person.
I want two other business cards.
Or you say, I wanna I wanna quote one thing that they're currently working on now that they haven't all resourced.
Like, pick something, but there's gotta be an outcome that you're driving to and then measure your effectiveness with that.
Right?
So that you can start to measure it because of there's that.
And then what Joby's pointing to, which is a real a real issue, it it happens with, it happens everywhere.
And that is that we start to once we get a groove and they like us, we go to the same ones.
We're and if you don't have that list of, say, 20 people on your target list for this year, 10 of whom you are going to get a quote with and five of them are gonna place an order so that you can start to really ratchet it up to what your effectiveness is.
Because if you don't have a target list, everybody's equal, and everybody isn't equal.
There are some people that absolutely should be doing business with you.
Like and you gotta have that sense of incredulousness.
Like, they they should like, we are the best for them so that you're sold on you being one of their top five, and then what do you have to do to be one of their top five?
And then maybe further down the that that top 20 list, you're gonna be in the top 10.
They don't go much beyond 15, so you gotta get there somehow.
But I would say pick what your your targets are gonna be and then start to strategize your cultivation and then and then watch it.
Like, how frequently are you gonna do that?
How are you varying your, outreach actions?
Do you have anyone that's a third party that could talk to them and say, you really should be meeting with Suzanne because blah blah blah?
Like, what are your cultivation activities that you actually can take and measure its effectiveness?
And expect to do this way longer than you expect in order to get it.
But your if you have a top 20 list and then you've got five that you wanna sell, close this this year, and 10 that you wanna quote, you wanna keep those active.
And how many the top ones need greater frequency and more variety.
Did that how's that, Joby?
Very helpful.
Thank you.
It's always it's look.
It always takes more action than you think it's gonna take.
Right?
Always.
It just does.
And if you if you if you, and I say the same for follow-up.
That if you're not making five follow-up actions and text gets you the fastest result, and you can text someone and say, I sent you an email.
Can you double check that?
I'll call you later this afternoon to discuss this.
You get all three of them in.
But we fall we fall a prey to the, allure of emails being a productive action when they are not a productive action.
Emails are good for if they need a paper trail, but they're not good for closing a sale.
Pick up the phone and then send them in text and say I left you a voice mail.
I don't look at my voice mail, but I look at my text because it bings on my screen.
Right?
So try to use a variety of outreach activities for what you need it to do, for what kind of response or quick response that you need from it.
Well, I think that can become part of the process when you're trying to set the appointment with them.
If you if you say, is it okay if I text you to confirm it?
They're giving you permission.
You and I you've talked about that a lot over the years, the importance of establishing that report or they're they're allowing you in and giving you the permission to do the follow-up.
Like, you're asking them, is it okay if I text you for the follow-up and they say yes, you've got that in to start texting them?
Because I'd be uncomfortable just texting people randomly, but you have to get their cell phone first Correct.
Cell number first.
Why when you say send me a picture, most of them are gonna send you a picture with a text versus sending you as an email.
So if you say send me a picture of something, you're gonna get their contact information.
But the other thing I think we don't do enough of is we don't use this enough or we don't use FaceTime enough or to say, let me just I don't even have to see you physically, like, face to face.
Let me just show you the lighting, like, four four or five lighting things in our showroom that you absolutely should see.
And I'll walk you through the showroom.
It'll take fifteen minutes.
We don't do that.
We're more apt to go to AI, which is crazy when we can stay like this and it's still contact.
Let's try using FaceTime more.
Most people have an iPhone.
I make a suggestion to the other Shar on this call?
Because usually there are not two Shars.
Yeah.
There's a Charlotte.
Yeah.
There's Charlotte, and there's me who is Shar, but I'm a Charlene.
I'm a twin whose name is Charlotte.
So I'm into the Shar thing.
Oh my gosh.
But I sell art.
And I was thinking just as a concept, and I'd like your feedback from Jody Forker is what if she picks out three or four different images to text to these people.
Am I on the right path?
Because these are the ones that are already.
You know?
They because they will react.
Even the receptionist will react to what you're sending.
So whoever's phone number you have, I I would do that because people will react to the art.
They do.
She's right.
Like, images designers respond to images.
So if we you wanna keep the Volley going, and you also want to in most communications, there's what's called the call to action.
So if you leave them with a question to answer versus just giving them information, but you're not asking for any action on their part, when they don't respond to you, my thing is you didn't ask them to.
You just left it there.
So, Suzanne, another question.
Do I think a handwritten note is necessary as well as designers?
I think handwritten notes are perfect all the time.
And I'm I'm a Massachusetts resident, so I have crane paper.
Right?
And so it I think they're beautiful.
I think handwritten stuff, it's it's handwritten on the front.
It doesn't look like anything else.
People ignore emails, but they don't ignore something in the mail when it's handwritten to them.
A shop won't have a cell phone.
You know what?
For some reason, my text will accept emails and send it through that way through a text.
Oh, wow.
I don't know why.
I am not special.
I don't know how to do anything.
But if it works, I do it.
So you might try that, sending it through an email, through your text, and see if that works.
There you go.
Yeah.
There you go.
And I tell you I did something awful.
Jody, I thought of you the minute I did it.
My gosh.
And I walked out of the office, and I they said, oh, we have to show these prints to the doctors and nurses, and I did not ask how long that would take and when to remit again.
And now trying to get the next appointment is like crickets.
I'm gonna ask for the action.
I'm gonna do the text, the email, and the call, but I thought, oh, Jody would be so embarrassed if you Yeah.
Well, you know and but the same thing is is that I I really want everyone to look at where that where that sort of limiter or I it's a gremlin that raises its head and says, you've reached out enough.
Stop reaching out to them.
I say don't.
Don't stop until they tell you that they bought it somewhere else.
And if if when you get them, if you're doing more than one, either more than one product category or more than one, sort of example, then you still have a shot at something.
It's not over yet.
But the more that we set it up, what Sharra is saying and and and if she, excuse me, got in the car and thought that, I just call them right then and say, shame on me.
I didn't set it up.
I don't wanna chase you.
I don't wanna haunt you.
Let's set up give you time to look at this.
Let's look at next week and see what happens.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Wow.
And it's time.
Did this go by quickly or not?
Wow.
This is wonderful.
So was this helpful?
Did this get you what you were looking for?
So practice.
Bring grace to yourselves and the and the people that you're trying to do this with because it's a new habit and a new faculty that you're looking to develop.
And don't expect miracles overnight, but just stay with it because there are lots of different factions and practice the set up your schedule to do appointments.
And and start using the meet again, speak again, morning or afternoon.
Start giving them either or alternate closes to act in order to get it.
And it will help immeasurably and expect to expect an outcome with every every every sales interaction, and you'll go a long way to creating one.
So I wanna thank you all for bringing all of this.
This is wonderful.
I hope it was helpful, and please keep in touch.
You're all gonna get this I mean, the video or the notes from this, but please let me know the results you're achieving with this.
That would be so wonderful.
Alright.
It was great to see all of you.
And, Joby, you and I should talk next week?
You're good.
You're good?
Would Tuesday or Thursday be better for you?
That's it.
I will check my I will send I after this, I will send it right back to you.
Okay.
Thanks, everyone.
Thank you.
Bye.
Bye.
Working with Appointments in Real Time
As you go through this training, I want you to start shifting how you think about appointments.
Not as something extra.
Not as something you “try to get.”
But as a natural outcome of every interaction.
A sale or an appointment.
That’s it.
Start Here: Change the Outcome You Expect
Most people go into a sales conversation hoping something happens.
Instead, I want you to go in expecting one of two outcomes:
- We move forward today
- We set the next step
When you do that, your conversations become more focused, more intentional, and easier to manage.
Because now you’re not wondering what should happen next—
you’re guiding toward it.
Appointments Are a Forward
An appointment is not a delay. It’s progress. It’s how you:
- Keep the conversation moving
- Stay connected to the customer
- Create momentum toward the sale
If someone can’t take action today, that doesn’t mean nothing happens.
It means the outcome becomes the next step.
If You’re Not Sold on Appointments… They Won’t Be Either
One of the biggest shifts is this:
You have to believe in the value of the appointment first.
Appointments:
- Help you manage your time
- Help them stay focused
- Create more predictable outcomes
- Keep opportunities from drifting away
If you see appointments as optional, your customer will too.
If you see them as valuable, they will start to feel that.
Structure Creates Confidence (for You and for Them)
A big part of making appointments work is structure.
That includes:
- Blocking time on your calendar
- Offering specific options
- Guiding the decision
Instead of:
“When do you want to get together?”
You move to:
“Is morning or afternoon better?”
“I have Tuesday at 10 or Wednesday at 11—what works best?”
That shift alone changes everything. Because now you’re helping them decide.
Introduce the Appointment Early
One of the most important ideas in this session:
If you wait until the end to bring up the appointment, it feels abrupt.
Appointments are an intangible outcome—and intangibles need to be introduced before you ask for commitment.
So when you recognize that today won’t end in a sale, say it early:
“Great—before we wrap up, we’ll map out next steps.”
You’re planting the idea so it feels natural later.
Use Homework to Keep Them Connected
If they’re not buying today, there’s usually a reason:
- Measure something
- Talk to someone
- Think it through
- Look at samples
That becomes their homework. And homework creates a natural reason to meet again.
You’re not chasing them. You’re following up on something that matters to them.
Make Time Real
One of the most practical tools in this session is helping customers understand time.
Not “a few weeks”
Not “sometime next month”
But real dates.
When you make time real:
- Urgency becomes clearer
- Decisions become easier
- Appointments become necessary
You’re helping them see what needs to happen—and when.
Expect It to Feel Different at First
This will feel new.
Maybe a little awkward.
That’s normal.
You’re changing:
- Your language
- Your expectations
- Your level of control in the conversation
Stay with it.
This is not about perfection.
It’s about consistency.
What to Practice This Week
Keep it simple.
Focus on just a few things:
- Block appointment times on your calendar
- Use “morning or afternoon” instead of open-ended questions
- Offer two specific times
- Introduce the idea of next steps earlier in the conversation
- Look for one opportunity in every interaction to schedule what’s next
You don’t need to change everything at once.
But if you start expecting an outcome—and guiding toward it—you’ll notice the difference quickly.
This is how conversations move forward. This is how opportunities stay active. This is how results start to become more consistent.
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